Sheila grew up in Blitar East Java where she spoke Javanese at home and Bahasa Indonesia at school she arrived in Memphis as a kid navigated an American childhood without a roadmap I was very self conscious about speaking because I thought that I was gonna have an accent I mean I did have an accent so I avoided speaking for the first year I didn't speak in school at all my teachers thought I was mute or do I wanna go to America with my mother this stranger that I just met two days ago I just wanna hug you right now I would take a bite into the food and it would transport me back to home and I was like this tastes just like home and I want to be I want to recreate that and so that's kind of like how that's why I started looking at food as a way to bring me back your unique blend of you and if that means a little bit of Indonesian and a little bit of American and you're not gonna look like anybody else and that's okay because you're unique hi I'm Alexandra Lloyd a French Canadian who's called Birmingham Alabama home since 2,017 welcome to from where to here the podcast that celebrates the rich diversity of languages cultures and the stories that connect us all each month I'll sit down with inspiring guests from different backgrounds to explore their cultures languages and tackle some fun in our truth there or debunk segment whether you're a language enthusiast a culture lover or just curious about the world you're in the right place let's dive into your next favorite cultural adventure she moved from Indonesia to the United States at 9 years old and somewhere between Memphis and adulthood she stopped speaking her own languages not because she forgot them because it felt safer not to this is from where to here the podcast about language culture and the journeys that reshape who we are Sheila grew up in Blitar East Java where she spoke Javanese at home and Bahasa Indonesia at school she arrived in Memphis as a kid navigated an American childhood without a roadmap picked up English French and a bit of Japanese and taught herself Korean through K pop and sheer curiosity she thought she might become a linguist life took her into tech instead today she lives in Birmingham where she works in banking technology by day and runs breadcrumb in this micro bakery she channels the same hunger for connection into flavor fusions inspired by cultures from all over the world but the through line of her story is not the languages she gained it's the one she's trying to find her way back to Sheila welcome to from where to here I'm so glad to have you with me today thank you glad to be here now before we get into your story I have a game called Truth Dare or debunk that loves to play with you you I'll give you this bowl there are three colors uh huh blue is truth something you will tell us something about Indonesian culture that people assume is true and then you have red where you will teach us a phrase in your native language OK one of them and black is a debunk so it gives you an opportunity to clear up a myth about your culture something that everyone think is true but really is not uh huh so you can draw a card and whatever you get that's your challenge and then that color we can run through a couple together okay sounds good I have red red okay so there you'll teach us a word in Japanese or maybe in Bahasa Indonesia that you think everyone should know about I think the one that's most used in my opinion is the word for sorry it's maaf and you say that a lot maaf Maaf Mm hmm that's easy yeah Maaf yeah and what's a scenario where you would use it an example of it you say sorry just like Indonesians use sorry in a lot of different scenarios like if something is uncomfortable you apologize it's like oh Maaf I like oh you wanna move on like oh maaf maaf maaf and you just like just keep saying it oh you wanna go past somebody on the bus oh maaf maaf maaf and you're just like you just keep saying it until you move away from people it is something that like continuously you say Maaf Maaf there's always this I guess this feeling of like it cause it's not just I'm sorry it's my fault that I did something wrong it's also like oh I'm sorry you're uncomfortable I'm sorry the situation is awkward or like something awkward is said and you're just sitting there in silence somebody's going to say oh maaf ya and then you're just like move on to the next conversation cause it's just uncomfortable and you said it Mafia Mafia yeah it's kind of like um an ending of a word it's like I'm sorry okay kind of like that and you just like keep going yeah OK yeah OK so you use it really in different scenarios like how many times a day do you think someone can end up saying it if so many times because you don't say it just one time either you keep repeating it until until the conversation moves on or until something else happens is there something the person in return should be saying or doing when someone else say those words usually they'll like respond back so this is another thing in Indonesian culture like you really don't want confrontations too when somebody says Maaf because it's uncomfortable because they maybe they really do feel sorry for something you always say oh it's okay it's like oh got papa got papa but you just kept saying it so it's just like keeps going back and forth somebody's somebody keeps apologizing for five minutes and the other person just keep going it's okay it's okay it's okay like got papa got papa okay love that yeah it's kind of fun yeah it's kind of fun like when you're when you're seeing it happen like in a public transport for example it just keeps going you're just like I wonder when this will end haha well that's a good one and very useful too if anyone travels to Indonesia this one was in which language this one is Bahasa Bahasa mm hmm perfect what's another one this is actually Indonesia's motto it's in old Javanese so you're not going to hear people speak using this version of Javanese anymore but their motto is Bhinneka Tunggal Ika binika Tunggal ika ika Tunggal ika hmm binika Tunggal ika Beninga Tunggal binika Tunggal ika hmm so this is the the motto for Indonesia and it means um unity in diversity or something like that and it talks about when Indonesia was first formed it united um thousands of islands that has hundreds and thousands of different tribes and they don't want to be divided they don't want to be you know separated because they found that they were stronger together against like the Dutch that were colonizing then eventually the Japanese that came during World War 2 um and so the the people of the islands united and they found strength in that and so that's kind of like their motto wow do you know how old that word is is it the very old like 1800s before the Dutch came I think how did you first learn about this word you learn about it a lot through school just because like when you're learning Indonesian history you get taught a little bit of like a little bit about the founding of the country right but I mean I left Indonesia when I was in elementary school so I didn't get taught that much but I get taught about like the flag what the colors of the flag mean and this is our motto kind of like you know everything it's stamped on every like every single school that has a flag has that word somewhere in the school or that phrase somewhere in the school so you learn it and then you kind of like remember it definitely now does that phrase feel true to your own experience in Indonesia or is it more complicated do you think than that motto can capture I think for me it does feel very true I remember growing up like I grew up in East Java um there were chin do Chinese Indonesians around me all the time and there were other people at at the time that I was living in Indonesia Papua New Guinea was a what's the word like a territory of Indonesia I think they've since gained their independence but we had so many different people like different types of people that you see around you the languages that get spoken is different in East Java my dialect is different than the Javanese that they speak in Central Java and is different than the Javanese that they speak in West Java and every island has their own language and so I grew up knowing that all of these different languages and all these different tribes from all these different islands have their own customs and traditions and that's okay yeah we're all still Indonesians at the end of the day yeah what do people in those tribes usually have which one do they have the stronger sense of belonging is there a common theme whether the feel stronger about their own dialect and tribe more connected to that or you're saying oh we're all Indonesian and that that has a stronger meaning to them how is it perceived generally I think like the tribal culture or the tribal identity is definitely stronger um just because of you only speak Bahasa Bahasa is kind of like the uniting language and so the culture around speaking Bahasa is only when you're in a official setting when you're in a government building when you're in a bank when you're in a school so you would speak that you would change and speak Bahasa but overall people have very strong identity and very strong pride about their tribes and like their traditions their food from the different islands and it all kind of comes together at the end of the day but everybody does have their own individual strengths that's super interesting so you would not be able to understand each other not always yeah but the last time I visited Indonesia I spent a couple of weeks in Bali and Balinese dialect is also very different from Javanese and very different from Indonesian and I couldn't understand anybody there might have been like a one word or two that I like picked up but couldn't tell you what this is that's fascinating mm hmm do you have one more for us I think very important one is Terima Kasih Terima kasih uh huh and that means thank you hmm yeah very polite Indonesians are very polite with the sorry and that it's okay and the thank yous you see you hear that a lot terima kasih are there words or concepts in Japanese or in Bahasa Indonesia that are hard to translate that you haven't been able to translate in English there are a lot Indonesians like to take two words and combine them together so the language is ever evolving I cannot tell you like what they say now because I've just not been living in it but one of the things that I think about is um Baper Baper Baper P E R Baper and it's a combination of Bawa which is to take and which is perasaan is um feelings or emotions like so like to take your emotions to bring your emotions is say it's essentially saying like you're you're sensitive or you're emotional and or you're too invested in something she's Baper she's Baper she wouldn't be able to give you an objective answer she has too much feelings into that does that make sense yeah it does I'm just fascinated by how I mean who decides yeah this is gonna become a new word I don't know and that's the thing is like I can't keep up yeah like I'm the thing you're always learning something new exactly like I'm trying to like keep up on TikTok with like how everybody lives and there's always a word I'm like what is that and then I look it up it's a combination of two words and who says if it's the beginning of the words or the end of the words would you say these are more expressions or words that become part of the language officially that could be in the dictionary I guess an expression could even make it to the dictionary but what makes the difference between this is a word that's gonna be widely used versus this is just an expression of the moment six seven oh my god there's not really I guess like you there's like I'm not sure like eventually I feel like I just keep hearing it a lot like I haven't checked to see if it's in the dictionary but it just keeps going you know there's another one that I think it's like that's not a combination of two words it's in Japanese and it's called um hold on I wrote it down cause I was like I had to make sure that I get this one right it's called ngabuburit ngabuburit nga nya nga nga ngabuburit ngabuburit yeah your French came out yes I know it does I'm rolling my eyes I know I know which is helpful sometimes I started dabbling in Arabic and I'm like I get my r good with Arabic so the act of doing nothing while you wait to break your fast during Ramadan it's very specific and there's not really like a way to like the act of doing nothing just waiting around yeah yeah that's a that's a good one yeah really love that thanks for sharing yes of course now okay let's do another one okay okay debunk so what is a stereotype about Indonesia that is just is not true okay we'll start with the light one that I get a lot is that Indonesia is in Bali hmm I got that from uh my choir teacher in middle school and I haven't let that go it's stuck with you stuck with me to this day Bali is obviously very popular it's a beautiful place but it is just one place in Indonesia there's thousands of islands in Indonesia's and there's so many different places that you can go to Bali is just one place it's a very small place in comparison to yep what you would you say is a a city or a territory that people should explore instead of Bali that could surprise them if they're looking for the Bali essence of a place the Bali essence of the place yeah cause Bali I think you I think of the movie that actually I haven't watched but that one where find your love it's a with that actress Eat Pray Love yes and it's like finding love it is yeah praying and yeah so that's what I mean by the essence if someone is looking for that essence for that vibe of okay this is what I'm looking for mm hmm but at the same time you're like okay Bali is overrated here's this place that you can find that same piece that I would go yeah if I was looking for a similar experience but not an overrated place yeah what would that place be very close to Bali there's an island called Lombok Lombok mm hmm you can get to it by ferry from Bali actually it's quieter there's horseback riding on the beach oh there's deers but like funny looking deers not the one that we see here okay they have like beards and stuff like that um it's really very peaceful so you can get some peace because Bali sometimes depending on the time of year that you go to is very busy and very full of tourists and they bring parties and if you want quiet hop over to Lombok you got me just at horse riding on the beach so cause this is one of the things I really wanna do and I don't think I've done I mean I've done horse riding but on the beach it's just there's something different about it with the Sunset Mm hmm on the sand and then galloping yeah that's a romantic date right there exactly you can find love with yourself yeah you can find yeah yeah yeah the horse will guide you the horse will guide you to your love I love it okay what's another one maybe another one I think maybe it's a stereotype but people tend to think that as a developing country um many Indonesians are uneducated or is it passive maybe the word like they're passive they're uneducated um and I think that's simply not true I recently Learned that Indonesia actually was a very important figure in the 60s in uniting newly freed countries newly freed colonized countries in Africa and Latin America and they came together with the idea of forming an alliance that wasn't LED by western countries so that they could focus on coexisting together then they can focus on supporting each other and lifting each other up and that was a very very important I think a very important leadership role that a lot of people overlook that Indonesia play into world geopolitics in the sixties and how did you first learn about it you just researched it or somebody shared a book with me or they shared a book on their Instagram story I think and I found it interesting because the title was The Jakarta Method and I was like oh interesting a book about Indonesia and I don't know what it is this is not a part of history that gets taught in Indonesian schools um and so I decided to pick up the book and kind of started listening and that's where I Learned about like how there were leaders back then and they achieved a lot of things before some not so pleasant things happen hmm yeah what's the name of the book again the Jakarta Method it is a very heavy book I will say there's a lot of things that happen like I I don't even think this history is taught in Indonesia because it does paint the Indonesian government in a bad light at the end of the day uh or the current government in a bad light but it is very important to learn just kind of like the people how the country was first founded this is right after right after World War 2 and the Dutch was trying to come back to Indonesia and reclaim some territories and the people fought against it and there were newly formed countries and they just kind of decided to speak up for themselves and get everybody else that was in the same situation in the same boat hmm that's always interesting to find out how things have formed how groups have formed and what kind of mission they had back then or because we're the results of those actions yes whether we like it or not and you've been Indonesia your culture I'm sure that's interesting to find out about these things especially later on when you think you've Learned about something and then oh okay this is what actually happened yeah it's very different and it it kind of makes you think like before I read this book my idea of the idea that I had about the Indonesian government is like how corrupt they are and it's true they are very corrupt and they don't have the people's best interest at heart there's a lot of poverty in Indonesia and that is very true but it wasn't always like that and I didn't know that there was a time that it wasn't like that I didn't know that there was a time Indonesia's tried to elevate its people and try to fight for freedom and independence of other countries who were going through the same situations that kind of paints them in a different light you know yeah like at this point like oh yes the government is very corrupt the people doesn't speak up that's not true the people did speak up the government didn't like it people in power in different parts of the world didn't like it but they did speak up and it's kind of like it's nice to learn about that because like maybe I could do the same maybe I could strive to be like that bring that back bring that fighting spirit back yeah because it's there it's just have been muted yes exactly suppressed hmm I love that you have that awareness and just like wanting to understand to then do better mm hmm what you think is better yeah and use that as kind of as your hidden power yeah do you have another one more debunk another misconception I think is that people think Indonesians are radical and extreme because of the religion Indonesia has the largest population of Muslim in the world and it makes up about 80% I think the last time I checked 80% of the total population of Indonesia identifies as Muslim and in our current world there's misconception that Muslims equal extremists equals other things that's not so kind and I I think that's a I have seen reports it's very hard as an Indonesian to get a visa to come into the US and I think part of it is because of the misconception especially if you are Indonesians who are Muslims the FBI has a list of top 10 countries that's on the watch list for terrorism and Indonesia is in it um and it's because of the uh Muslim population how did you find out about that you research it you're a good researcher I I find I find out a lot of things I do like to dig into things um and honestly I have a lot of Indonesian friends who are active in activism and politics and they share links and studies and books with me and I just I just look at look into it and you find out a lot of things about you know what people think of you or just by reading and researching you you grew up between cultures you speak more than one language you quite honestly have never fit into one single box I made a free 2 minute quiz for you answer a few questions and get the results find it at quiz. from where to here pod.com you went to Korean school growing up yes what did that actually look like in your family and your community in all honesty it was a very cultural thing Quran school I went every single afternoon it wasn't just like a once a week thing I Learned to read the Quran I Learned how to pray I learn Arabic but that's about the extent of it I don't remember learning the meaning of the words that I was saying I just kind of it's something that I go to and I get to read and write in a different language and I get to speak it I was making sounds I don't know if I ever like saw it as I'm learning something for my religion it was just something that I do um it wasn't until I got to the US and I started doing Quran school here that I Learned like the meaning of the words because I think there's um and I'm not sure how true it is but in Islam if you read or if you pray in Arabic because it's closer to the original language that the Quran was first written in then it you don't lose meaning of your prayers and so they always like emphasize that you stay doing it in Arabic and so in Indonesia you get taught to pray you get taught to learn like to read the Quran and write in Arabic so that you can stay close to God's Word as possible but that was about the extent of it my family all also you know like everybody not everybody most everybody in my family prayed five times a day they fasted during Ramadan we celebrated Eid but it was more of a cultural thing it's always mixed and this is kind of something that I always tell people my family practices a form of Islam that kind of blends Hindu traditions with Islam which is something that my anger a lot of people because like before Islam came to Indonesia before Islam came to Java specifically um a lot of Japanese practice Hinduism they live out altars for family members who've passed they prayed like at the 75 day Mark 100 day Mark 150 day Mark all of these like traditions they just kind of like weave Islam into it so like the prayers become Muslim prayers mm hmm um so it's I don't wanna say that it's like true Islam it's just like the Indonesian cultural influence on Islam is kind of the form that we practice there's also this concept in Indonesia called I think it's a KTP religion KTP um KTP is the form of ID that you have it's like your driver's license essentially and in the license in the identification card it asks you for your religion and you have to put down a religion really yeah what if you don't have a religion you pick one you pick one that's why people say oh she's just Islam KTP she's just Islam on her ID she's not really Muslim oh so that's something people will say to just say oh like she's not a real one yeah like in a way yeah like you just you just pick one you just pick one I think like the options are I'm not sure what the options are but I have family members who are Catholic and so they'll have Catholic on there some is in Hindu but I know some of them doesn't practice or they don't they don't fast they don't pray they don't go to church and so it's just like she's just Catholic catepe Catholic catepe yeah and is it seen as different in a negative does it have a negative connotation I don't think so it's more common than like the actual practicing oh one yeah and why is there a criteria why is it required to have a religion on your id I'm not 100% sure the Indonesian government is very conservative and they just like to keep up with those things like they're they're very conservatives in all aspects of the word um and they just kind of I don't know do you get holidays off based on your religion yep and and it depends usually like businesses close kind of like uh what is their own discretion oh at your own discretion at your own discretion yes so businesses can close at their own discretion so a lot of uh Muslim owned businesses will close for a week or two after Ramadan to celebrate Eid yeah and you just don't get anything but then the the the Chindo businesses the Chinese Indonesian businesses will stay open but during imlek the Chinese New Year they'll close for a week and so it's just like they just gonna switch yeah it just depends like there's not really like a national holiday that's forced like you know how we're off in the US for Christmas everybody's off for Christmas we don't have that it's just kind of like if that's part of your if that's what you practice then you just kind of close I see and how many religions total do you have in Indonesia you said 80% is Muslim mm hmm I think there's there's Muslim Catholicism I think is next the biggest one I don't think there's that many Protestants Christians um a little bit of Judaism but Hinduism is still very big in some of the islands um and so is Buddhism hmm OK those are the six that I know of personally um and I I know like different family members that are part of those different religions and I think that really wraps up for truth there or debunk thanks for playing along thank you now let's talk about your journey a little bit more mm hmm you were born in Blitar East Java you mentioned it before we talk about America I wanna know what was it like life over there what do you remember most about growing up in that world I remember running around a lot I remember a lot of rain and just running around in fields and barefoot playing in the rain the streets in front of our house was not paved it was still dirt road and so I would make little kind of like 2D kind of 3D not really drawings cause like I would make the dirt into like little walls and I'll have like little paper dolls that I would play and like I would make little dollhouses out of the dirt in front of my house and have separate rooms and then I would just play like that I remember just like a lot of outside playing time there was a soccer field nearby our house so like I would run to the soccer field and watch the boys play soccer and just a lot of running around were you making friends with your neighbors or were you mostly kind of a solo play no you definitely make friends with your neighbors we always keep our doors open everybody keep their doors open as soon as you wake up your doors open so you can go inside your neighbor's house anytime of day it doesn't really matter what time so you just walk in you just walk in are you just walk in you say hi you take make some food and then you walk out the other side of the door like the door is always open the last time I went back to Indonesia um this is after spending a couple years in the US where it was not like that at all you keep your doors locked I was taking a nap in a room and somebody just opened the door and said I heard you were home and I was like oh who is this who are you because I had forgotten like their faces but it was it's just very normal for neighbors to just leave their doors open so like I would go run around I I have a friend that lives two houses down from me and I like I'll run in grab her and then we'll go somewhere else and we'll just keep going like everybody's doors always open everybody knows everybody so never did you bring some of that to America no absolutely not I was very scared coming to the US really yes um and I think I kind of shut down almost as soon as I got to the US the journey itself like the flight to get to the US you're overwhelmed by everything the business of everything how big everything is um when I got to the US I was 9 years old I think and I got interviewed by customs and that was scary for me because everybody is also bigger believe it or not I'm the biggest person in my family like I'm the tallest person in my family and everybody is taller than me here in the US so everybody look like giants to me back then um and look they were like interrogating me about like how long are you staying in the US what are you doing here I was 9 years old I think were you by yourself no my mother was with me but still yeah he was there it was still just very scary and everything was so much bigger and I got scared and I think I was very self conscious about my accent or what my accent would sound like when I start speaking English so I just avoided speaking all together and that age is such a formative age cause you're old enough to remember yeah to have memories from Indonesia like you mentioned you building those MUD houses in front of your house outside but you're also young enough to absorb like like a sponge everything from America from that new land that you just come to what was the culture shock like in those first few months yeah so like I said like everything was so much bigger everybody was louder I was very self conscious about speaking because I thought that I was gonna have an accent I mean I did have an accent so I avoided speaking for the first year I didn't speak in school at all my teachers thought I was mute cause I didn't speak I was just like I was just I was just very scared and then like the air just smelled different it was hotter which is weird because like Indonesia is you know positioning in the globe like it's closer to the equator so it was you would think it's hotter but like the type of hot in Memphis Tennessee is so different it's asphalt hot and it just I was just very uncomfortable and I just didn't like I didn't I was I was just so scared of everybody if I'm being honest cause everybody was so much bigger than me um it didn't help that like yes I was with my mother but I didn't know her like I had met her a couple of months before how come I moved so she was always working overseas and I think she left to go work in either Malaysia or Brunei when I was like six months old like as soon as she was able to leave she left and then eventually she made her way to the US and she stayed until I was 8 years old when then that was the first time I met her um and then a couple of months after that I went through the process of like trying to get my visa to get to the US and then she came and picked me up and then we left together hmm and so like I was basically with a stranger and I don't think that helped at all wow do you have any siblings no just me just you okay yeah that must have been an adaptation and just a big shock at first and you so you mentioned Memphis Tennessee I mean it has somewhat its own culture uh huh its own history its own rhythm there what was it like being Indonesian in Memphis anything that kind of stand out for you during that time early on it's very different there wasn't a lot of Indonesians there and so you learn very quickly to adapt I was around a lot of Middle Eastern people just through the mosque in Memphis and so like I Learned to change um kind of like how I act how I dress just like based around that um but there there wasn't really a time for you there there wasn't an opportunity for me to be Indonesian in Memphis there were adult Indonesians that my mom was friends with and we hung out with them but there wasn't anybody my age um I was the only kid um until my junior year of high school where another Indonesian kid moved to the US and started going but even then like our experiences was so different just because we came at those at different times so it kind of felt alone it you learn how to be a chameleon very fast just to try to you know get through without drawing too much attention to yourself yeah you mentioned changing how you act and how you dress can you expand on that when I was in high school in Memphis I was wearing the hijab a lot and I felt uncomfortable wearing the hijab for a lot of reasons I think at the time it was something that was forced on me by my mother it wasn't something that I wanted to do so I was already had resentment from it but then I got to school and people were looking at me differently people were whispering things and so I adjusted by wearing the hijab when I leave the house and then when I got to school I would take it off and then I would put it back on before I come home just so like my mother could see me like you know just little things like that just kind of keep the peace and back in Indonesia were you wearing it no I mean I I would wear it like for certain events like if I go to Quran school I would wear it and then if like a a wedding sometimes like I would wear it like stuff like that but it wasn't like it wasn't something that I wore every single day mm hmm and at this point in my life when I was in high school my mother was starting to kind of like tell me that I should be wearing it more often um we were around a lot of Arab Muslims and they wore it all the time and they wore their hijab a different way than we wore our hijab back in Indonesia so she was like we should wear it this way instead and just to try to kind of assimilate to the people that we're around but and so like when I go to mosque I would do that but when I go to school and those people aren't in school with me I felt different so then I would change it up again yeah trying to fit in trying to fit in trying not to draw too much attention why is that when I I think kids are mean there was a lot of kids who would make comments and parents and teachers who would make comments about like me being Muslim one of the not not one of the only Muslim kids in the school but one of the only Muslim kids in the class that I'm in you start to feel uncomfortable because people start talking about you behind your back little things like you know you'll notice them looking a certain way but you just you start hearing it about like during moments of silence for 9 11 mm hmm kids teachers would look at me during the moment of silence and then you're just kind of like what are you looking at me for I was three years old what do you mean you know so like you just start feeling uncomfortable because then you stand out makes me sad I hear you say that yeah but it is it's part of it it's not okay that it happened at the time I try to tell myself like oh it's okay it's just part of the price that we pay for being here like we should just be grateful I think that's something that get told to me a lot growing up is like you should just be grateful that you're in the US not a lot of people have this opportunity very true but at the same time it's not OK that you treat people like that you treat kids like that because it affects them it affects me obviously because like I don't speak up I try not to draw attention to myself yeah and it starts with the parent too I mean that yeah there's the authority that they need to do something I think there's a responsibility that comes from the parent from the teacher I mean you mentioned they also would not yeah make you feel welcome in the best way by talking behind your back or right then it's reinforcing the acceptance of the kids doing the same and that's not okay yeah I'm sorry you had to go through that thank you so did you end up finding community or did you feel like you were navigating it mostly alone and you had to just fit in into what was already there I definitely think that I had to navigate it alone I think that's kind of how I approach life it's like nobody nobody would ever understand me or see where I'm coming from or like know my experience the way that I experience it and it was too hard to try and explain it to people because it's so complex it's so nuanced so like I just stay quiet and go through it by myself and figuring it out on my own you came in already speaking Japanese in Bahasa Indonesia and you were learning English at the same time what did it feel like to be in a new language every day at school at home pretty much everywhere yeah overwhelming yeah to say the least to say the least also the the English that I Learned cause before I moved to the US I had a year of immersive English program in Indonesia okay but the English that I Learned there is Australian English oh so when I this is what I was saying like I was very conscious about my accent my first year in America cause not only did I have an Indonesian Japanese accent I also had somewhat of an Australian accent to how I try to say words so it was very overwhelming it almost felt like anything that I Learned in the year prior didn't really apply because I would take spelling test here in America and it would be wrong because I spelled color with an O U I was like I know I got it right like yeah and so like it was it was very overwhelming the slangs like the everyday like you learn what you learn in a in a textbook it's good to like give you the basic but once you're in it and you're trying to learn the slangs and the expressions you kind of have to like relearn everything I think that's why I chose to stay quiet for the first year just kind of absorbing everything make sure that I'm not like saying something wrong yeah and so you were yeah at school it was only English mm hmm at some point English it did become your most comfortable language mm hmm and as that happened the others started to fade at least in how freely you use them yeah and so what did you or when did you first notice that shift was it a moment and what did it feel like I think it was a very gradual thing like we mentioned earlier I I came to the US at still such a formative age I haven't fully completed my vocabulary yet there was a lot of things that I couldn't express I didn't have the words to express it and I it just so happened that I Learned to express those words through English and it was easier to kind of explain my feelings just like teenage angst you know like what like teenage angst oh what's that what's angst um angst teenage so during your teenage years during your teenage year like you just there's this feeling of like the what um how do I explain it being judged not being judged just like you know when you're a teenager and you feel like the world is against you yeah and you're just like kind of sad and yeah yeah yeah you're in your own head so you have a lot of angst in your head and you have a lot of emotions and feelings that you can't really express yeah okay it's like I can relate to that yeah in my own teenage years and I can understand and see that in teenage years yes I just never heard that word so yeah you're teaching me something okay yeah so like that that was in in me and I'm like I don't know how to express these feelings I don't know how to express the frustration that I'm feeling and so when I was in my mid teen years like 16 or 17 years old I was actually diagnosed with a major depressive disorder okay so it's it's a depression and I was medicated I was on medicine for it but that's another thing that like it become very hard to try and explain these things in Indonesian or in Japanese because I don't know the word for depression in Indonesian oh the concept of having depression itself is not talked about I think it's starting to get talked about now but at the time it wasn't really accepted it wasn't the norm so then you don't have the words to talk about it but it was a big part of my life because it was taking over my everyday feelings that I have to find a way to talk about it and the only way I could do it was in English and so I just started to become slowly like it was easier to express myself using English because I have all the words to express it and you can take it wherever you want but what are some maybe of the symptoms or how did you find out and was it a way for you to maybe explain it in the Indonesian through what you were feeling or what was happening inside of you yeah there's a lot of like unexplained sadness that I was just feeling and I kind of wrote it off at the at the time of like oh it's just me being a teenager I'm just a sad teenager like we all go through that phase right but it was kind of like following me in other aspects of my life where yes I was I I have my sad moments but I don't know why I'm sad I don't know why I'm so so sad and I was sleeping if I wasn't working or in school I was sleeping most of the day away I wasn't eating because I was sleeping so if I didn't have work or school for two days I could sleep the whole weekend and not eat or drink anything okay yeah and so it was very like it was very like deep like that it was very bad and at some points there were moments where I was like I think just like the the burden of trying to go through life by myself and probably feeling like I didn't have any support system I did feel I have my moments where I was feeling kind of suicidal too that was very hard to explain I think I tried to explain it to my grandmother um in Japanese and I didn't have the words I told her like oh I'm sleeping all the time I'm not eating her response oh you're just lazy you just need to try harder are like oh I'm feeling sad like why are you sad you're in America so it's like it was just I the concept of depression just doesn't click and that might also be like a cultural thing so it sounds like you were not validated yes by the yeah closest person people around you and so you were even navigating that piece all by yourself yeah it was hard enough to try and find those words to explain it to them but like once you struggle and try and find the one or two words that like this is what I'm feeling and they're like no that's not that's not really that's just you being lazy that's just you being whatever it's like okay well I've spent all this time trying to explain to you like what's the point of trying to find the words anymore because it was hard so then I just kind of at that point I just kind of slowly slowly stop expressing myself emotionally in Indonesian in Japanese and it makes it easier to just kind of stay quiet and if you don't talk about your feelings and how you're doing truthfully you just lose connection I think yeah wow and it's it becomes harder and heavier I would think yeah for sure how did you navigate that in terms of getting you know you mentioned there was a lack of a support system so how did you navigate it the fact that you were there with that heavy on yourself like did you seek expertise like from a therapist or maybe there was a friendship that you were able to talk through those things that kind of was bringing you comfort like how did you go about getting the healing that you were seeking I think it's a work in progress I'm not completely healed I yeah I had a therapist when I was at UA at Alabama and she helped she helped getting me medication for my depression I had a therapist I like I've I've tried to go through different therapists but I recently started with a therapist here in Birmingham and just trying to kind of like make sense of my feelings now that that's kind of like the the professional help in my personal life um my stepdad's family they're American and so they're a lot more open to talking about mental health my stepdad actually he's passed now but he suffered also from depression and anxiety and so he understood and he was able to help me like fine words to explain what I was feeling in my experiences and his brother is also a therapist and so like it helped to have that and I think like my support system at that time in my life when it was you know very heavy and almost seem like the whole world was against me they were able to kind of pull through and like you're not the only one feeling this way and I think that's kind of like what helped that's great how did you feel comfortable like did you already have that level of comfort with them to start talking about these things or was it kind of a work in progress where you're like okay I know what they do they could be a good ally in my life I'm gonna start opening up like what was that process like cause I think everything you're saying it's very real yeah and especially going through so many like challenges and just changes like you're not the only one and if that can help someone else that's listening or watching this I think you know if it can impact one person uh huh and or give the courage yeah to maybe get up to that comfort level to just talk to someone uh huh so I'm curious what was it your experience like in terms of okay yeah I'm gonna give it a go were you already comfortable or did you have to tiptoe and see okay like how how did you navigate that with therapist I definitely have to tiptoe I've had a I have a couple of therapists it's also a little bit challenging to find a therapist that is sensitive to being a multicultural kid and multicultural like background and having you know like trying to explain on my my my Indonesian family isn't really receptive of the idea of depression it was very hard to find a therapist that grasp that and that can approach it with like you know compassion and so I had a lot of therapists that fall through like I'll go to a session or two with them and I was like okay we don't we don't click and I just keep going I knew that eventually I think I couldn't do this on my own like I couldn't work through my emotions and my feelings on my own because it was getting too loud in my head and I need to get it out somehow so I would write it down I would journal and it was fine but what I really needed personally was to have somebody tell me that I'm not alone that other people feel this way too and I found a little bit of that through music um like lyrics to music that makes you feel less alone um like I have my go to songs when I'm starting to feel down you know yeah eventually you'll find that being able to open up to somebody and just talk about it makes it lighter on you and also it's like the the validation part that you said earlier I wasn't getting that validation and now I'm getting it from my therapist if they're good yeah which sometimes it's a hit or miss you just kind of keep trying you have to find the one that you're like OK I like you and you understand me the way I want to be understood what about you mentioned the family members um one unfortunately passed away but how did you already have that level of comfort if you know someone near you is a therapist does that mean oh you're gonna start opening up or was it like you already build a relationship with that person to be honest I didn't know that my uncle was a therapist um and I and at the time that at the time I wasn't very close with him I was very close with my dad we spent a lot of time together um he was just he was around a lot more than my mother was and so we would talk a lot when I started I I think he noticed that I was going through a depressive episode before I even knew what that was and so he tried to get me out of the episode by getting me to go outside let's go outside let's go get something to eat let's have this routine where we go to Sonic every Sunday and we'll get the same food things like that like I think he knew and I was comfortable enough to eventually like tell him I don't know why I'm feeling this way I just feel it I never come out and say that I'm I think I'm depressed or like I'm having these thoughts it was just like this thing is happening and I don't like it and this you know I'm telling myself these things like unkind words in my mind and I think he was very perceptive because he was also struggling with mental illness and I didn't know it at the time um so he was like I think you should see a therapist and so my senior year of high school we started seeing like a family therapist oh uh yeah how was that I think it was a good experience I don't remember it that much if I'm being honest cause also that senior year of high school is very busy at home I was trying to graduate early so I was actually junior in high school I was taking so many classes and then going to therapy with my family it was tough because we were asking my mother to also come to therapy and she was like doesn't believe in therapy she thinks that um she just see it as somebody trying to infringe on her family and trying to tell her how to leader or I had to keep the family together and she didn't like that I don't know and she was like against like medication for depression and anxiety and all of that she wasn't it whenever she was there it was very strained but I think that's when I started to find out start to acknowledge that my relationship with her isn't the way other people's relationship with their mothers are and I'm just not comfortable with her and I think like she's still a stranger at that point even though we've lived together for so long we barely talk we don't know each other and so it just like wasn't a good experience it was a good experience in that I found ways to express myself express my feelings and I think that eventually helped me find my own therapy therapist when I got to college but it was challenging I'm curious how has this impacted your life as a young girl or a young woman uh huh in up to today I hate confrontation uh huh I if anything ever start to feel uncomfortable I would rather I shut down I quiet down and I'm trying to work through that with my therapist I'm trying to speak up more because it's affecting my relationship with my husband now because he's he's he's pretty much grew up here in Alabama in the US um and so he's like if I if something is wrong you need to say it say it out loud and we need to talk about it but like for me if something is wrong I don't say anything there's there's definitely that clash I have definitely let people push me to say or do things that I don't wanna do just because like I don't wanna say no like I don't want it to be uncomfortable and so like I've been peer pressure to do things that I don't wanna do just because I didn't know how to stand up for myself but you're changing that I'm trying to change that it's slowly working I think yeah yeah that's good wow proud of you thank you for taking the the steps to do that today's episode is brought to you by Birmingham Bread Works they've been serving up amazing sourdough bread European style pastries pizza soup sandwiches all made from scratch since 2,014 everything they make is fresh no preservatives no additives just simple clean ingredients their cafe is the perfect cozy spot with natural lighting warm wooden tones and art from local students and photographers it's perfect to grab a coffee or something delicious to eat plus they're big on sustainability as a gold level member of the Eat Earth Aware team stop by Birmingham Breadworks and taste the difference of fresh local food there's something in your story I don't want to skip over and you can again wherever it feels right but this idea of being the oldest daughter mm hmm the one who gets sent abroad first uh how did that shape things for you growing up it adds a lot of pressure and burden um like I mentioned earlier my mother had me and then a couple months later she left overseas to work and I haven't seen her my mother is the oldest daughter in her generation and so the burden of providing for the family falls on her she left to go work overseas she left her daughter to go work overseas it affected me because I felt abandoned I felt like I didn't have a mother um that I was just getting passed around from family to family member because she would send money to whoever had me for the month but I didn't speak to her I didn't know her I don't I didn't know what she looked like the idea of a mother was a concept that I know other people have but wasn't sure that I truly had it people tell me I have a mother but I'm not sure I've never met her so you you would not see her when she was traveling overseas you would not see her at all no what is your dad part of your life do you have another parent figure he was the he also worked overseas until I was five or six years old I think and so when I was five or six years old he came home and start living in Indonesia again with me um and it was kind of like the same situation where it's like I don't really know you people tell me you're my father I'm gonna believe them because that's what people tell me I was also six years old so what do I know um but it kind of like made me have this like people pleasing attitude just because like I want to be a good daughter so I'm gonna tell you whatever you want me to do yeah um so my father had the idea that I would be an actress and a model in Indonesia at six years old so he would sign me up for pageants he'd sign me up for commercials and I would just say yes because I just wanted a father in my life I just wanted a parent in my life so I'll do anything that makes you keep me around essentially and so I did that and he pulled me out of school for a year to like shoot a movie I don't know if the movie came out I don't remember but I did that so he was overseas and then when my mother came to pick me up this was the first time that I met her I was eight years old um the same thing happened like oh now I have the opportunity to have a mother in my life so I want to do everything that I can to make her like me to make her want to keep me around because I don't know her at this point and I's uh there was like a custody hearing I'm not sure if a custody hearing is the right word that's like a very American term I don't think it was custody in in the US it was just like who do you wanna go with yeah do you wanna stay home in Indonesia with your father who I've known for all of two years at this point or do I wanna go to America with my mother this stranger that I just met two days ago and at this point I was like oh my friends have mothers I wanna have a mother too so I wanna go with her so I chose to go with her sorry so I just wanted what everybody had I just wanna hug you right now so like who who would you go to if you wanted to have I don't know comfort you had a question who would you recognize as someone you can trust I don't think I had that okay yeah I did a lot I did a lot on my own oh you're making me cry too now sorry it's okay yeah but you know I think that's the effect of that's how my mother being the oldest daughter and being expected to provide for the family affected me um and when I decided to move overseas with her I was nine years old and I started working when I was fourteen under the table at a restaurant and of course my grandparents found out that oh she's working now and I'm the oldest granddaughter um and then they started asking me for money at I was 14 years old I was a hostess I think at a restaurant in Memphis and they were like oh I heard you're working now I'm gonna start asking you for money and that continued on until well after I left home I left Memphis to go to college and have my own job here in Birmingham my grandparents just kept asking me for money money for the family money for cousins who needs to go to school who needs instruments who needs whatever I know my mother still sends them money but they wanted more and they thought that I should be a good daughter and provide that's what a good daughter does is yeah that's what it does yeah in the Indonesian culture yes you provide for the family and you don't ask questions so did you accept that no I'm thinking at first you did but then you're changing ah yeah well at first I didn't know how to send money OK so I was like that's old that's a very valid I was like how I don't know how to send money and so I didn't but then like oh but you can send it to your mother and she'll send it to us and then um when I left when I started living on my own here in Birmingham I had to pay for my own apartment I had to pay for my own car insurance everything and it was very real very fast how expensive living is yeah considering I was still trying to go to school at the time and I was working part time at a restaurant as a hostess so I was making a little bit more than minimum wage but still wasn't that much everything went back to my living cost essentially and so like my grandmother would call me and ask me for money and I would give her a breakdown this is how much money I bring home this is how much my rent is this is how much my car is and I would list everything down and I would like I don't have that much money I would get food from the restaurant that I was working at of people that doesn't pick up their takeout order I barely have enough for myself and that's when I started to push back and that's where it doesn't like work well with like their expectation of what I should do their expectation that I should provide because then it's like well if you try hard enough wow you would be able to send us money home if you get a roommate instead of being selfish and want to live on your own your rent would be cheaper and you could send us that money back home wow that's that's interesting that's definitely a it's just a difference right it's a cultural difference at this point it's good or bad it's just that it's a key difference it's a major difference and I think now like um modern generations maybe like people my age or younger they're starting to question it they're starting to push back at least from what I've seen yeah on social media just trying to keep up with everything but at the time it felt like I was the only one saying no and my family members my grandmother my aunt my uncle made sure that I know that that's not what a good Indonesian daughter or granddaughter does so it was very challenging and the start also of like that disconnecting is that distancing from the family I believe it yeah now so you've talked about trying to find your way back to Indonesian culture despite all of this and what I find interesting is that it's not necessarily through people you shared about the history so it's more through that through the spirit the food what made you start looking in that direction okay so that is part one and I just want to say what she shares next week stopped me I was not expecting it make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss part two see you next Wednesday thank you for tuning in to from where to here if you enjoyed this episode be sure to hit subscribe leave a review and share it with someone who loves discovering new cultures follow us on Instagram at from where to hear pod for exclusive updates behind the scenes moments and a peek at upcoming guests until next time keep learning keep connecting and keep celebrating the beauty of languages and cultures adiós