So tell me about who you are without using your name, your job, or what you do for fun. Being young when we came here in 1950 at age five, it was easy for me to adapt as a kid. You adapt easily, you pick up the language because we didn't speak any English. But how it changes things, I think, not when we're comparatively speaking, is I knew that we were different than other kids in school because I consider this home. I think I mentioned to you when we spoke earlier about my parents' desire to come to this country, the land of milk and honey that was looked at, and it still looked at that way by people around the globe. But they were so happy to come here, and they didn't look back. I was invited over to their backyard. They're having a cookout for their troop one night, and something's good. Oh, true. You know what's coming. Yeah. And it was bacon. I had never tasted it. It was wonderful, but I couldn't admit to my parents that I ate it. The guard kept taunting various prisoners to see if somebody would react if they were Jewish and they were just trying to hide it. Her friend finally reacted, and he shot her on the spot, the guard did. My mother told my wife things when she was dying. She was dying of liver cancer. And she told my wife things. My wife said to me, I'm not going to tell you what your mother told me. But that was one story that was revealed through my wife. Hi, I'm Alexandra Lloyd, a French-Canadian who's called Birmingham, Alabama, home since 2017. Welcome to From Where to Here, the podcast that celebrates the rich diversity of languages, cultures, and the stories that connect us all. Each month, I'll sit down with inspiring guests from different backgrounds to explore their cultures, languages, and tackle some fun in our Truth, There, or Debunk segment. Whether you're a language enthusiast, a culture lover, or just curious about the world, you're in the right place. Let's dive into your next favorite cultural adventure. What is Language Legacy? It's a youth and elders interview series where teenagers from Alabama engage in meaningful conversations with elders from immigrant and refugee communities. Through guided storytelling and cultural exploration, youth were able to record elders' language memories, items, childhood stories, and first language expressions. These interviews were edited into short video stories and shared across all platforms. The goal is to bridge generations through the power of language and storytelling, preserving cultural heritage by connecting youth with immigrant and refugee elders. The possibility of this project is cultural connection, intergenerational understanding, and appreciation through the power of language and storytelling. We want to foster cross-generational and cultural connection. We want to foster cross-generational and cross-cultural connection, elevate and preserve the linguistic and cultural stories of elders. And finally, empower youth as interviewers, listeners, and cultural documentarians. So, tell me about who you are without using your name, your job, or what you do for fun. I have a natural affinity for people that want to talk, warn people. I like talking to people. I like learning things. And I try to be kind and not talk down to people or make fun of their background or anything. It's nice to be—I'm comfortable with me talking to people, making friends and keeping friends and being friendly with them and not making people feel bad. It's a learning process, I guess, as I've gotten older, is to appreciate other people and their ideas, their practices. And I just find it interesting, fascinating meeting. In my work, I meet people from different cultures, from Asia, from the Middle East, and then in this country. And it's interesting comparing the common denominator of things. And then they have their differences in their foods and their religions. But it all boils down to getting along. And I think I get along pretty well with people. And then to kind of speak more on your immigration and everything like that, how has being an immigrant shaped your outlook on life? And just how has that, you know, the move and everything shaped your outlook? And then also giving you a different definition of home, of how, you know, you've moved from one place to another. How has that— Being young when we came here in 1950 at age five, it was easy for me to adapt as a kid. You adapt easily. You pick up the language because we didn't speak any English. But how it changes things, I think, not comparatively speaking, is I knew that we were different than other kids in school. And then in my community, over the mountain, let's say, the haves and have-nots, but the newly come—the new arrivals to this country, they had a little different perspective. And I think we adapted well. But you always grow up seeing or feeling that difference that when you first realize there is a difference. And you and other people. And I think it gives you a good perspective of not just where we stand in life, but what you can make of it. Because there was not a hindrance. It was a—look back now, and it was more of a definition and a plus, because you have different experiences. You can speak a different language or two than your playmates. So you equal things out later in life as you get older and you realize what's important. But you notice the differences when you're young. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. And then for your journey of learning English, you said it was easy because obviously you're kind of immersed in that English culture. For, I guess, your parents and then—or for you as well, was there any saying or word in maybe your language or in English that kind of reminded you of home while you were in the United States? Maybe a saying in English that reminded you of your old home or of a saying in your old country that kind of in English maybe was— That's a great question, but I can't think of anything to give you a good answer. Because I grew up speaking—we grew up speaking Yiddish at home, but we were in Germany, so we also were speaking German. And I can relate to experiences with other people and with the city, with the surroundings that we grew up in. But it was a DP camp. It was not a normal existence. So—but I can't think of any phrases that come to mind that would answer your question. But it's a good question, really. I just wish I had a better answer for you. Well, that's okay. Well, compared to how you were learning English was—I mean, did you hear about from your parents about maybe some obstacles they faced, maybe? Oh, they faced obstacles all the way—as long as they lived because there was such an idiomatic language. And my parents spoke several different languages, the hard languages I call the hard language, Russian, Polish, Hebrew. And English was the toughest language to learn. And also, I think it's tougher you hear on adults that pick up a new language, especially our language. It's just hard. I don't think it's hard, but I picked it up right away. So did my brother, because we were young. We had playmates on the street, and it was not an impediment. Yeah. You were immersed in it with the other kids and everything. Yeah. It was good having neighbors and kids up and down the street. It's changed. I think back when I talk about the guys on the street, mostly the guys, but we played at night. We didn't lock our windows and doors. We slept without air conditioning back then, so you didn't really think about not having it. And then our cars were unlocked. And people, we would play at 8 o'clock or 9 o'clock at night in Overton Park on Southside near St. Vincent's Hospital up from it. And our parents didn't worry about us. Today, you lock everything up. It's a whole different atmosphere for our children. Yeah, 100%. So, in that respect, we had it easy. But that interaction served us well. Yeah. And friends we've maintained since then that grew up together. We stay in touch at times. It's fun. It's nice to have old friends. I love that. Yeah. I love that. So, you grew up in Alabama. How has that, I guess from what you remember, I know you're so young, how is growing up in Alabama different from how you grew up back in where you went to the DP camp or wherever, whenever your countries you started? You know, it's funny. I had no comparison. I had no comparison. I had no comparison. But food was a huge issue for my parents having been deprived of meals during the war and in that labor camp. But food was an issue. Food was an issue. And I don't remember that. It was not an issue. I didn't think about it. It's whatever you have, you just, you know, you didn't know any different. But the attitude of people, the closeness. You're not going to remember a lot because of your age. I remember playing. I remember having a good time. When you're young like that, you don't have a comparison of like you have here, whether you grew up on Southside or over the mountain. It's everybody who's in one unit. And we made the best of it. And here, I had almost like too much to attend. It was, you don't realize it so much at five or six or seven, but you begin to realize how much better off you are and the amenities you have that you didn't have. So when you didn't have them, you didn't miss them, right? Yeah. But it was a nice upbringing here. And there, I had playmates. I had friends, German kids. But it was just a, it wasn't a deprived existence. It was just one of, I guess, our parents made that, made us feel comfortable with it. And since you did move at such a young age, how's your definition of home, I guess, been affected by all the moving that you've done? Hadn't really, because I consider this home. I think I mentioned to you when we spoke earlier about my parents' desire to come to this country, the land of milk and honey that was looked at. And it still looked at that way by people around the globe. But they were so happy to come here. And they didn't look back. And this was home. Yeah. That, when you're that young, I don't think we realize that that's home. We don't think about it. But here, yeah, you realize it's a good place because your parents are glad to be here. And that reps off on you. So I appreciate us being here. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love that. I love that you've been able to find home here. Yeah. And clearly you've, I mean, you've found it even today, even now. And they waited five years to be naturalized, the proper legal time. And we're happy to do so. And they went to classes to help learn English and to write and read in a language. It was a good experience for them. They always appreciated being here. Yeah. And being away from the theater that they grew up in. Of course. Yeah. Of course. Did they have to learn English before they came over here? Or was that once they got here? No. They didn't know really where they were going. Oh, okay. They were slated to go to South America. And it didn't matter. Just get out of where they were. And they found a family with two children. And my brother was born in 47 in Stuttgart. So they had a family that had the same number of children who wanted to go to South America because they had relatives there. So they talked the American authorities into, or the Allied forces, into letting them swap. So we ended up here. And it was, they never looked back. Yeah. They were glad to be here. Of course. Because they knew about this country, you know. And then I know you mentioned when we talked earlier, a lot of people go through New York and went through New York when they immigrated. But you all went through New Orleans. New Orleans, yeah. It was unusual. I guess, how do you think, it's kind of hard to think about this, but like how do you think going through New York would have changed your experience than going through New Orleans? I mean, that South, North and South, those are such big different cultures and experiences. So how do you think that would have changed? So many people came through New York, through Ellis Island. And we ended up with a transport that only made two trips over here with refugees and other passengers. So I'm glad it was, we had that difference. Because we, if we had gone to the island, who knows? I mean, you assimilate where you land. But here, we were waiting in New Orleans for sponsors to, we had to have sponsors to come in, begin with. Come to Birmingham. It was just a luck of the draw. It worked out that way. Yeah, it is. Yeah. And can you kind of explain, go into more depth about the sponsorship? Like, do you have to look for that or do people come to you? How exactly does that work out? I think you apply because there were so many refugees after the war. Not just from the Jewish community, but from all religions, cultures that had to go through this process. And here, once we landed in New Orleans, they had us verify and make sure that the sponsors that had stepped forward with the Federation, the Jewish communities that helped them find a place to live, helped them find jobs. Because it was, it came with nothing. So, that took a while. But when we got to Birmingham, it was, it was a breeze in that they didn't have to go to work. They could right away get into a routine and as best as they could, because there was a language barrier. And they learned the language here. And they didn't know they were going to come here until they found out the paperwork got swapped out. But they had nobody to practice with, nobody to speak with on that ship. They were all refugees of different cultures, different languages. So, they started from scratch here. It worked out. Yeah, obviously, clearly. And then kind of switching topics a little bit. What kind of holidays and traditions maybe did you, as a child, just absolutely love and still remember and maybe even do today? The one that comes to mind would be Passover. And that was commemorating the Jews' exodus from Egypt. But that's my, that's one I remember that hasn't changed. That my parents went whole, it's called a Seder, which is the order of things in this particular celebration. And it was, it lasted forever. And as kids, we were just real fidgety. We got older. I enjoyed it more. Brothers did, too. And that's one tradition that's passed on that we, I look forward to celebrating. It's one of my favorite holidays. And I didn't know from Thanksgiving from other things. And that became my wife and my mother's favorite holiday here. Yeah. Yeah. So, Thanksgiving is that, I mean, obviously, that's a very United States tradition and holiday. So, that's, you never had heard about it beforehand? No. No? No? No? Really? That's so funny. Because that's, you know. It's funny because we assume that, yeah, you know about Christmas, Thanksgiving, and that and the other. But when you're in a whole different culture and you've got the holidays that you're used to celebrating. And I think, didn't Christmas start in Germany initially? I think so. Yeah, so. I think it did. We were there. But didn't celebrate Christmas. That's so funny. Yeah. Well, I mean, at the time, probably nobody really wanted to celebrate. I don't know. I think. You know, I would think that without my parents going into a long discourse about it, I would think that the holiday was just being away from the camp, surviving the war, and coming here. That's very true. I mean, that's a celebration in itself. That's it. Very true. And it didn't relate to any holiday. I don't know if people in that setting would celebrate holidays as much as just celebrate their existence. Yeah. Just life. Yeah. Life is a celebration at that point. I mean, it always is, you know? That's true. But, yeah. I agree with you. Yeah. And so Passover, I don't know much about that. Can you kind of just go over what exactly, like, what kind of traditions do you, maybe is that specific traditions and then maybe some specific to just like your family that you have? Well, you involve your family if you can, but you give a bread that eight-day period. You eat certain unleavened breads. It's called matzo. You change your diet to a degree. You have this celebration of it. The first night or two nights, some people celebrate two, some one. It's a celebration of that memory or that what you're taught about, the Jews' exodus from Egypt and how they had to leave so suddenly that the bread that was made didn't have time to rise. That became the matzo we still use today, to some degree the same thing. But you're celebrating not that. That's just one of the types of foods that changes. But you're celebrating heritage. So it's a festive holiday, but not like Christmas or New Year's. It's more serious. And it lasts for eight days. And if you remember your background, you remember what your religion has taught you and what yours bring down, it becomes very important to celebrate it. And also, if you have kids, to show them to abandon the practice of their religion. Yes, of course. And I'm not sure if you would know the answer to this question, but did you ever ask your parents maybe how they celebrated Passover when they were, like, during the war and everything? Was it, I mean, I can imagine it was more difficult, but could they do it at all? They wouldn't have access to the foods. And the food is a big part of our holidays anyway, except for the fasting holidays. You know, it's a great question. I don't know how to answer that, because in a camp, you eat what you're given. And then in Stuttgart, not openly practiced their Judaism. They had come into all places in Germany after the war. So you weren't sure how you stood, you know. So did they celebrate openly? I don't think. I think just privately maybe they celebrated, because they were religious people up to a point. And remembered. But they didn't celebrate until they got to this country. Yeah, and that makes sense. Yes, I mean, just the fear. I would, you know. Probably the reservation of what they'd been through and not being open up. You have no idea what the reaction could be for outsiders if you did. That's true. And I mentioned yesterday to you that I went to a Catholic kindergarten. There were no synagogues, no Hebrew schools, no Jewish institutions of learning to go to. So I went to Catholic school there. And not that they lived as Catholics, nothing wrong with that. But that's what I grew up knowing. And then when I got older, you realize, hey, this was not meant to be. This was just a passing thing. Of course. And then once you got to the United States, did you end up being able to go to a Hebrew school? Yes. Okay. And how was that experience? Was that experience? Yes. Of the new school, new country. I mean, all the new things. Like how did school and having similar peers help you maybe adjust better? I think so. It's funny. The kids on the street, there were not many Jewish kids on Southside at the time that we came here. But then being in a Hebrew school and a Sunday school and going every afternoon almost, I felt that other kids, because they could go out and play ball and have fun or do whatever they do. I had to go to Hebrew school. And it was a chore at the time. But it was expected of me. So we did it. It was just, you know, you do it. But it served us well in the long run that, you know, you're a little bit closer to your religion. Yeah. Yeah. And in your language in Yiddish, was there any specific phrase that you'd remember to this day maybe that you kind of think back to? Or, I don't know, just an important phrase for your life maybe that you want to hire? You know, it's funny because comedy comes into play or something funny. Because I can speak English at home. But the one thing is that I remember I go to is that when I had playmates in the house, my parents both worked. But if my mother was home, she would get my friends. I played in the house in our apartment just for a little snack, a sandwich or something. And if you weren't eating, they would send you to the doctor if something's wrong with you, you know. Food was important. Yes. Because they were deprived of food. They wanted us to eat. And if I wasn't eating enough to suit my mother, she would tell me to eat more. But in front of my friends in Yiddish, and it came out, Jack S. Jack S. I thought I would have crawled under the table. They thought I would call it Jack S. But that's Yiddish for Jack Eat. Yes. That phrase comes to mind. But we spoke Yiddish at home so commonly that I don't pick any particular phrase. Just it was everyday speech. We're talking. Yeah. Yeah. That's funny. And, you know, food is important. That's, I think a lot of cultures can say that food is important. Southern food, you know, that's such a big thing here. When you moved here, was there a culture shock with food, Southern food? It was from my parents. Yes. I couldn't discern. But they loved the food here and the vegetables and things they didn't have over in Europe. And to acclimate to fried tomatoes or okra, fried okra, just dishes that they never had before. But they kept kosher, so they were limited in how they would prepare it. But they kept kosher all along, and that was one thing they preserved. But, yeah, the foods available here, that was huge. My mother loved the style of cooking. Yeah. Who doesn't, right? Yeah, right. Yeah, I can imagine that's a big difference, especially in abroad cultures. I feel like the fried food's not as popular. But in their background, which would be mine, it's a big, like Poland, where they're both from. It's a big, and Germany, too. It's a big meat and potatoes country, you know. That's the diet, meat and potatoes. You didn't have all the frilly stuff. So it's a change, but it's not any shock. You just adapt. Yeah. There you go. And that's what they had to do, adapt. That's right, they adapted well. Yes, yeah. And it's, you know, with this food, I would adapt easily, I can imagine. Yeah. You kind of shared how your life was before you came here, but are there any details maybe that stick out to you? It is kind of hard since you were so young when you were in Germany, but any details from before you came to the United States that just kind of stick out to you as a kid? I guess it goes back to what our parents wanted us to experience after what they had been through in losing family in the war. They wanted us to experience the nicest, something nice, something good, something maybe productive, or just be happy. I think I mentioned to you my father lost his wife and two daughters. They wanted us, they were protective, very protective of us. And they wanted us to enjoy a good life there. It's just possible. I remember my playmates, my friends I would play with and what we would do, go to town. I think I mentioned also to you that when you went to town, that I did with my parents. It was like a bazaar because the stores weren't open. Everything was closed and people had suitcases open on the strip main streets of downtown, selling whatever they could. But I remember things that were unpleasant, but pleasant growing up over there. Yeah, just different than how it is. Yeah, because everybody kind of had to, I mean, like you said, everybody had to adapt to what had happened. Everybody did. All the stores just closed, so they kind of made their own stores at that point. Yeah. Yeah. And then if you could go back to that younger self, what would you say to yourself now as an adult who has lived in the United States for so long, what would you tell your younger self? Going back to Stuttgart? Yes. Or here? Or Germany? Or to immigration? Or when you were young? It's going to be a general answer to be more aware of things. I mean, as a kid, you sometimes oblivious to what's going on around you. If I could go back, I would try to be more aware of people, of circumstances, and not to be judgmental, but just to take in more. Yeah. And not blindly play with kids down the street and not realize that, you know, in a way, it's a blessing. You don't, as a child, you're not dwelling on what your parents went through. You're going through your experiences. So they're not bad. Yeah. It's hard to really see what all's going on. Yes. Even the bad and the good, you just kind of are on that one-sided view of things. But yeah, I think asking questions is something that's very important. I wish I'd asked more questions. Yes. And that's what we're doing here, right? Yeah. Well, sort of, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I just wish that with my parents' background, there were a lot of refugees, a lot of survivors that came out of World War II. They didn't want to talk about their experiences. It was very traumatic for them. And we got that vibe from our parents growing up about not asking questions. But I look back, as I got older, I should have asked more questions because I don't know much about the families beyond a certain point. And they didn't want to talk about their experiences. And I found out about a few of them that were not exactly pleasant. But maybe I could have found out a way to gently approach the subject without making them feel bad. I wish I had done that. Anyway, hindsight's 20-20 of them. Yeah. Did you have any, maybe, friends or peers around you that were in a similar journey to you of, like, immigration and coming? Or was it just kind of people who were already there? Yeah. I didn't have, once we got here, no. Only when I got older and got involved with the Alabama Holocaust Education Center did I realize how many people probably had same, similar experiences from Mobile up to Florence. How many people came to this country and to Alabama specifically and adapted well. And so, again, I didn't know it years ago, but now I do. And their stories are told. And they're videoed. They're interviews. So it's good that a lot of that's not going to be forgotten. Yeah. Yeah. I completely. Yeah. Was that hard for you, not having? Or was it just kind of like, I'm a kid. I don't know. I'm sorry. I interrupted you. No, that's okay. Not having a certain experience. Like, no, I just, that was one of the kids. Yeah. That was one of the guys, you know. You notice a difference, though, because of your Jewish background. Some things change. You don't celebrate the same holidays. You don't eat the same foods. You, to stay isolated in a community, I don't think serves you well. You've got to interact and assimilate as much as possible. Losing your own identity and without giving up your culture. And we adapted pretty, fairly well. Yeah. But kept our traditions, kept our beliefs. Yeah. That makes sense. I know you listen to From Where to Here because you're not into surface level travel. You want the story, not just the sights. But let's be honest, breaking the language barrier can be intimidating. That's why I created the five phrases that unlock any culture. These are five simple phrases designed to pass small talk into real conversations from almost anywhere in the world. Don't just be a tourist. Be a connector. You can grab it at From Where to Here pod dot com slash five phrases. That's your shortcut to unlocking real conversations. And when you first arrived here, you said, did you immediately go to the, you said you were in the south side? Yeah. From, you know, as you grew up or did y'all move around in Alabama? It was an apartment, old apartment building. It's still standing and I'm surprised. It's so old. But after that apartment building, I moved to another part of South Side, not far from St. Vincent's Hospital. And we grew up there. And then when I left in 63 for college, they bought a house, never got to live in that house. But they, that was the thing about my, my parents believed in home ownership. And they strived and worked safe to have, to have their own. And that was kind of, that defines their lives, their, their lives here is, is work. All of us, my two brothers and I, I've got to go, I think. And we come by it honestly. Yeah. I mean, that's your, if you're grown, if you grow up that way and are shown that with your parents, it's kind of just how, how you live life. It's, I'm going to work hard. I'm going to do it for myself. And that's amazing. As you moved, I guess, just in Alabama in general, did you ever experience maybe some discrimination or hatred as, you know, a Jewish member of the community? Not really. I mean, things happened. One incident, I remember our synagogue in the 60s when probably the city was in a bad situation. My father and I went to early morning service one day. And there was a big swastika flag on the side of the building. So, you know, you call the police, nothing could be done about it. But it was just a very, very, it was a slap in the face to him more. And I think to him, because I've been through, to see that. So there were some ugly things. But overall, no, it was not a, not a bad upbringing. Yeah, that's good. So you said that you asked your parents a few questions, not very many, but would you mind telling maybe some of the stories that you remember them telling you just about their experience during the war? Dad was in medical school, as his father and grandfather were medical doctors. And then the Jews were kicked out of institutions that are learning in not just Germany, Poland, other places. But he didn't talk much about his, even, he had a huge concentric scar on his back where he'd been wounded. Never would talk about it. Never would tell us the details. My mother, the one detail I remember the story that's most telling is that when she was in the camp, she had grown up without her father and her later years when she was young. But she and her mother were seamstresses, living, making clothes, fixing clothes. But they also lived off the land in a small plumber land. They grew all kinds of vegetables. They had to buy very little. But they knew how to farm. And when she was in this labor camp, she was, she was digging potatoes. And there was another woman that she knew to be Jewish. And this camp, the Nazi guards would taunt the, because they were in this camp not as Jews, just as they lost their paperwork purposely. So they weren't identified as Jews. But the guard kept taunting various prisoners to see if somebody would react, if they were Jewish and they were just trying to hide it. Her friend finally reacted. And he shot her on the spot, the guard did. And she dropped to see my mother. My mother never looked up. She was tough. She never looked up. And then he walked over to her. He says, I knew you wanted Jews because Jews don't know how to farm. Well, how wrong he was. But it served her well. Yeah. Yeah. Have you, has your parents maybe taught that? Did they teach that to you and your siblings? Have you had that throughout your family just about, you know? We know the same basic stories. And then my mother told my wife things when she was dying. She was dying of liver cancer. And she told my wife things. My wife said to me, I'm not going to tell you what your mother told me. But that was one story that was revealed through my wife. Yeah. So we learned things, you know, piecemeal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, every story has an impact. Yeah. So that, I mean, that just shows how she was. And that's, I mean, you can just tell how she is through that one story. Yeah. If I have her more ways to learn, yeah. Yeah. That's incredible. Incredible story. And it's not mine, but I get emotional about their stories. Your parents are a part of you. Yeah. So, of course, it's, they, you grew up with them. So it's horrible to think about any, anything that they went through was, was horrible. And obviously that's what she showed bravery through that act. Yeah. Yeah. What were some of the biggest challenges that you went through? We've kind of talked about how easy it was for you to adapt a culture, or, sorry, language once you was here. Was there any challenge maybe that you faced once you got here? No, the only challenge is we're trying to be interpreters for our parents. Because they didn't understand, they didn't understand our language at first, and they learned it, but still missed a lot. In a sense, of your parents are trying to explain things that, hey, this is what they're really asking or saying, or this is what this letter says, or this document. So it was a responsibility that became, naturally, but it was never an imposition. It was always, they didn't need our physical help. It was just adapting to this culture, to this surroundings, everything. Yeah. And you obviously have created such a beautiful life here. Did your parents just, did they find their home in Alabama? Did they love it? Oh, they loved it here. Yeah. Yeah. They found their home in Birmingham. They had no comparisons, really. I mean, they could have been sent to Houston or Kansas City or wherever. It didn't matter. But they made a good life here and loved being in Birmingham. This is a good city. Yeah, it is. It has a bad rap from years back, but it's a good city to live in. A lot of opportunities. Yeah. A lot of things to do. Yeah. I completely agree. Yes. I mean, I've grown up here most of my life, so I can really... You can appreciate what I'm saying. And you can break it down between, this is a good food city. Look at that. It's a good... It's gotten to be a good education and the medical facilities. And today, people are interacting better, behaving better. And you look back at the 60s when certain legislation was passed and people behaved badly. Well, you can't legislate morality. It just takes time to adapt. So I think people are a little bit... Except for road rage, somebody's driving on a highway, people are... That we have. Yeah. Yeah, we have. We get along better. Yeah. Which is nice to see. I agree. I love community. Yeah. It's always important to have. So as a kid, were there any fun, I guess, games or, I don't know, little things you did that once you immigrated, maybe, that you just discovered and you were like, I had no idea this was a thing, as you know, playing with all your kids on the street? Here, this is going to sound corny, but all the kids in the neighborhood, we enjoyed going over to the park at night, or we still had that, and playing Red Rover, you know. Oh, yeah. I guess it's still a play today. But riding a bike, we weren't allowed to have pets. Didn't own a bicycle, but I got the treat of riding neighbor's bikes sometimes. And those little experiences you remember. And the kids growing up, I have to admit, though, we kept a kosher household. But I had a friend across the street whose father was a scoutmaster. He was a medical doctor, but a scoutmaster. And I was invited over to their backyard. They're having a cookout for their troop one night. And something's good. Oh, too. You know what's coming. Yeah. And it was bacon. I had never tasted it. It was wonderful, but I couldn't admit to my parents that I ate it. That's funny. Yeah, did any of your friends, when you, I mean, had specific food just requirements that had to do with being kosher? Did they question that? Yeah, I think it was a different diet, different culture, different type of food. I mean, you know, pita, burning jelly is universal almost. But when it came to certain dishes that they didn't grow up with that I did, you notice the difference. And then as you grow older, not only old, but as you go through childhood, the school is the common denominator because the lunches were the same for everybody. I used to bring my own lunch for a long time. And it was a little bit different doing that. But it was not bad. Yeah. But you realize there are differences in your diet and what you're used to in eating. Yeah. It's not bad. Yeah. What were some of your favorite meals and kosher meals that you had? My mother would fix pancakes. It was called potato latkes. And she would fix giant ones. They would, I mean, they weighed a ton. But they were just potatoes and onions in the basic mix. Matzo ball soup, which is common. You've probably heard of that. Chicken soup with the matzo balls. There are certain dishes that I grew up with that you didn't have to have a holiday to eat or a good piece of brisket. But it was different than my neighbors. We had different diets, different dietary procedures. And we weren't deprived. But we ate well. My neighbors did too, but different types of foods. Different kinds. Yeah. Now you have kids, grandkids, all the things. Do you still make some of those comfort foods that you described? I do. And the one thing was the people, even my neighbors, my non-Jewish neighbors, depended on me for years for potato latkes. They're delicious if they're done right. And so when I make potato latkes, I didn't make them last year. I didn't have the time. But when you make it for your neighbors, I pay extra special care for making sure it turns out right. And I have a list now that I can distribute to. But for my family, my sons make it. My son that lives in Pelham, he makes a good one. My brother fixes a different version that I've learned to fix. Follow our mom's recipes. Not per the letter, but just know generally what to do. Yeah. Some of y'all's own little tradition, I guess. Yeah. They all pass along. But you know, it's funny because you have the diet. One of my favorite recipes would be the Mediterranean food. And the Jewish diet and Mediterranean food, it's more related to that culture. Mine is European background. So we have different foods that we enjoy that Jews do not partake in. So it's funny how the dietary customs are different from country to country. But in this country, it's more of an equalizer. Eventually, you adapt to what's available. Do you know some of those specific restrictions? Because I don't know much about the Mediterranean. Yeah. I have friends that introduced me to it. And I have vendors in New York from that part of the world. And their diet is so, I like it. But it's so different. Because I eat, in my diet, I have, it's like a hamburger, but it's made of fish. They call it your filter fish. It's an acquired taste. My wife takes for it. But you put enough horseradish on it. It's a wonderful dish. They don't, they hate that. They don't, they don't hate it. They dislike it. It's not in their culture. It's not in the Mediterranean diet. But they have in their diet that I like a lot. Yeah. It's a lot more diverse than the European culture. European Jewish culture. Yeah. I didn't know, I didn't know about that. So you said that you travel to New York a lot for work and everything. Is the Jewish community up there very prominent? Is it different than the one down here? It's still more prominent. And there's a lot more religious Jews. I mean, the Orthodox or the religious sects of New York than you see here. There's rumored up there. The whole communities. Here, it's just a few families. But, yeah, you know, it's funny. Down here, there's a bit of difference between the different brands of Judaism, the Reform or the Conservative. We get along. But when it comes to our practice of our religion, they're very, very, very, what's the word, set in their ways about, no, we're not going to go to your brand of Judaism. We're going to go, you know, our temple. But we have things in common enough that we're friends. It's not a division among us because of that. You're just about what you like. Yeah. There you go. Do y'all have any, or did you and your family have any songs maybe that you carried through from your old country, or did you kind of just, you know? No. Because their old country was Poland. And having grown up in Germany, we didn't adapt to the German culture, so to say. So it was more like just an existence, you know? And so did they carry songs over? No. The only song that was common was in our celebration of Hanukkah, which always comes the time of year that Christmas comes around. And there are Hanukkah songs that we grew up with that we still, not that we sing them all the time, but we know those songs. Those songs come to mind. Mm-hmm. But they're pleasant songs. Yeah. Pleasant holiday. But just the holiday songs? Yeah. Some music? Just like an important thing? It was kind of like, eh, music? Yeah, right. Was it different over here in the United States when you got here? I don't remember the practice. In Germany, they didn't openly get the pleasure of doing that. But here, we certainly, my parents emphasized all the holidays. Okay. Passover, Hanukkah, were there any other significant holidays that you could think of? Just the serious ones. The New Year, the Jewish New Year. Rosh Hashanah. And then the days, 10 days later, Yom Kippur, where you fast for the day. And those are serious holidays. And those were the same. I remember now, as a kid, I knew there was holidays. You just, you know, you try to behave. You try to behave better. But they haven't changed. That stayed the same. Yeah. Were there any, you mentioned Thanksgiving, were there any, or, you know, United States holidays that maybe you took up once you got here? Or I guess there aren't any. Thanksgiving was the one because it was generic. I mean, it didn't, you don't have to be any kind of religion to participate. It was a fun holiday. That's the only one that comes to mind. Yeah. Yeah. What do you, when you do that, do you do the traditional Thanksgiving foods? Yes. Or do you do the more, yeah. No, no, we do the traditional Thanksgiving. Not with the, just, you're not eating pork, you're eating chicken or beef or fish or something. Yeah. But, yeah, it's, it's still, it would be my, one of my favorites, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, so I know you said that your friends that you played with on the, in the street and everything, those were, you know, your close companions. Was there anybody else, maybe an adult or a teacher or anybody that made you feel welcome when you got here? A teacher, just, just anybody that made you feel welcome. Enelope Cunningham comes to mind. She was, I think it was, I think it was first grade, but she was so welcoming. And I, and she knew about, a little bit about her background. She was such a wonderful teacher. I think she passed away, it's been a couple, three years ago, but she would see me at the pig in Crestline, Pigby Wiggly. Mm-hmm. And, oh, Jackie, and she'd give me a hug, you know, and it's, it's unusual that how many years she, she, she, she was the same. I mean, she was just very welcoming, very open, very loving. And when you're teachers, I mean, I had some good, just growing up at Lakeview. If I'd have paid attention, they'd have been maybe more favorite teachers than mine. Mm-hmm. Wouldn't have been reprimanded so much. But, but she was my favorite and she had, she had an impact on, to a degree, an impact on me as far as memories of school. Yeah. That's great. Good memories. Of course. Yeah. Um, so you mentioned that you are part of the Jewish, or Alabama Jewish Education, the Holocaust Education Committee. Holocaust, there you go. That's what it was. What made you, or how, how was the beginning of that? When did you join it? How is it, how has that journey been? I didn't feel any different than the Holocaust survivors. The real, I got my foot in two camps. A child of Holocaust, by date of birth, a Holocaust survivor. But I got involved with this, this organization through Phyllis Weinstein, who was the founder, basically. And we're sitting at a Children of Holocaust Education meeting. They were trying to get some things together just for the children to, you know, participate, be more active, pass their stories on, which they're doing now. And Phyllis sat down with me, and we were just talking, and she said, by the way, when were you born? And I told her, she says, will you qualify as a Holocaust survivor? I really, I mean, this really Holocaust survivor is like, you met Betty Steinmetz, her husband, with different concentration camps. Yet, she didn't differentiate. She said, no, you are a survivor, and we want your story. Yeah. So I became involved. Yeah. And that's great. And you got to share your story, and that's now in the museum that you mentioned, correct? Yeah. It's, they have a facility on Howard Avenue that you guys are welcome to visit. It's really, it's really interesting, but it's a history of the different Holocaust survivors, but it comes down to a common theme of having been a survivor of the Holocaust. And how is it, I assume, that you've gotten to talk to a lot of the members and hear their stories? Yeah. Well, we've heard, I've heard their stories. I haven't heard all their stories. Yeah. But I read about them in the, in the center. I did listen to some survivors at Sanford University. I watched a husband and wife team tell their experiences. And then Max, Betty's husband, who talked about his. But I've, I've heard him talk and learned a lot of things. But I've learned more by reading through the history of each person at that center. Yeah. And so, I'm with them. We're on a different level. Yeah. It was, it was interesting. Very interesting. To hear. Yeah. To hear about all of them. Yeah. Well, it's about your history. And then when you hear the stories, you end up in why. The pat answer. No. There never will be. No. I completely agree. So, would you say, just obviously sharing the history of, of World War II and Holocaust survivors is so important. What, do you have maybe a little spiel about just like keeping that history and remembering it and, and sharing? Is there, you know, if that made any sense? It, you know, it comes down to what we preach and try to practice is you remember it's because you were a Jew. But for any, you remember it doesn't happen again, number one, and it can happen to other peoples, you know, next, next year they could target redheads. We don't like redheads in this government. So, we're going to get rid of all redheads. But that's my analogy is you remember what you went, the black community. You talk to young kids today and I have black clientele that I work with in my business. Their, their grandkids don't know their own history of what happened here in Birmingham. It's a shame that, that the traditions are not, or the, the happenings are not taught these generations. But it's, it's, it's important that that be carried on. Remember is the key word. That it doesn't happen again to you, whether you're a Jew or not. One more question, I guess, just to set this up. What advice would you give for, I guess, just younger generations or people, you know, I mean, in all different walks of life even. What advice would you give? Number one, I think, would be respect your parents. I didn't give them all the credence I should have growing up, but they know a lot. I listened to them. So that's part of respect. And then treating people, it's a golden rule, treating people like you want to be treated. That, that's so significant and it sounds trite, but it's so important to kind of live that kind of life. work ethic. Work ethic. My parents worked hard, very hard, and just to get here, but they always had a good work. They never took a vacation. They worked. And the only time they even didn't work is when they went to the synagogue for our holy days. So it's, but the work ethic is there with myself, my two brothers. I think all of us have a good work ethic and we try to impart that to our grandchildren. So it seems to have worked out well so far. There's no way, you will not be lazy and be a snipper. There you go. Perfect. Thank you. Well, I want to thank you so much. Thank you. For sharing your story. It was amazing to talk to you again. Well, you ask good questions. Thank you. You're terrific. And in speaking with you yesterday, you're such a well-rounded person. Thank you. But your questions that you formulated are good questions. Thank you so much. Tough to answer, but good questions. Yes. That first one really got you. Yeah. But it is a difficult one. I don't know how I'd answer it, so. Yeah, I could have passed that back to you. Oh, please don't. I'm interviewing you here. Yeah. But it's been a pleasure meeting with you. Thank you. You too. Thank you. Perfect. Thank you to everyone who shared their stories and helped bring this project to life. Thank you for tuning in to From Where to Here. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to hit subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who loves discovering new cultures. Follow us on Instagram at From Where to Here Pod for exclusive updates, behind-the-scenes moments, and a peek at upcoming guests. Until next time, keep learning, keep connecting, and keep celebrating the beauty of languages and cultures. A bientôt. A bientôt. A bientôt. A bientôt. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.